Reader comments: MormonTimes.com: Obama, like Romney, deserves benefit of doubt on religion
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Kurtlein | 12:38 a.m. July 7, 2008
There is no mistaking what his pastor said in those sermons. If you've read former comments of his or his wife, as well as those of his pastor, there is no room for a "benefit of doubt." B. Hussein Obama is no one who can be trusted.
KennewickCougar | 1:49 a.m. July 7, 2008
I have no problem being fair to anyone, but let's not get ridiculous! A "leader" would have distanced himself from radical Rev. Wright long before Obama did, instead of waiting till public pressure forced him to distance himself. Obama is just showing us his "true colors." That is until the outcry becomes too great & he has to do something different for political expediency.
Jay | 7:06 a.m. July 7, 2008
Set aside his religion. Set aside his color. Set aside his wife. The real question should be: Do we really want a Marxist to be our next president?
Comments continue below
Scott | 9:05 a.m. July 7, 2008
"I don't care what you say about me so long as you talk about me!"
Chad | 9:22 a.m. July 7, 2008
Obama deserves the benefit of the doubt on religion?
Maybe from normal people.
But Mormons are the most hypocritical, judgmental, elitist people in the country (maybe even the world), and they keep a double standard for themselves and their own (like Mitt Romney). They insist on "fair" treatment for Mitt in regards to his religion, but they will discriminate like the dickens against Obama because he is a member of an "apostate" religion!
Maybe from normal people.
But Mormons are the most hypocritical, judgmental, elitist people in the country (maybe even the world), and they keep a double standard for themselves and their own (like Mitt Romney). They insist on "fair" treatment for Mitt in regards to his religion, but they will discriminate like the dickens against Obama because he is a member of an "apostate" religion!
Anonymous | 10:57 a.m. July 7, 2008
Well, here's one Mormon who is giving Barack Obama the benefit of the doubt on his religion. I've been saying the same things Beth has been saying all along — she just articulated it better than I could, great article! So Obama's pastor said some inflammatory things, and his wife did as well. Guess what? OBAMA HASN'T! At least not that I've seen on record. The LDS gospel holds the principle of personal accountability: Therefore, Rev. Wright is responsible for the things he said, and Obama isn't.
So, there's two small holes poked in Chad's stereotype. Sadly, I think many LDS might fit into it, and even though it's an unfair generalization, it needed to be said as basically a warning for what we Latter-day Saints should not do lest we be hypocritical.
Obama does deserve the benefit of the doubt, and he gets it from me (as well as my vote). I'm tired of "guilt by association." It's an untrue principle, and Mormons are the last people on earth that should practice it.
So, there's two small holes poked in Chad's stereotype. Sadly, I think many LDS might fit into it, and even though it's an unfair generalization, it needed to be said as basically a warning for what we Latter-day Saints should not do lest we be hypocritical.
Obama does deserve the benefit of the doubt, and he gets it from me (as well as my vote). I'm tired of "guilt by association." It's an untrue principle, and Mormons are the last people on earth that should practice it.
Vell of Prith | 12:12 p.m. July 7, 2008
Jay, I say: PROVE your contention that Barack Obama is Marxist!
You cannot, because it is not so. BHO is no more a Marxist than GWB is a fascist. Let us stop with the false name calling!
I feel that BHO is a good man, a good father, and no Marxist, or even particularly leftish. Those who think him so must be pretty darn rightish themselves! Perhaps to the right of--oh, I dunno--Glenn Beck? LOL!!!
Benefit of the doubt is a good thing. Some think JohnMcCain's wartime POW experience left him with snakes in the head; yea, even some Republicans stress this kernal of understanding. Reject it. It is false. And bearing false witness is against God's law.
We all remember God's law, or do we? LOL!!!!
You cannot, because it is not so. BHO is no more a Marxist than GWB is a fascist. Let us stop with the false name calling!
I feel that BHO is a good man, a good father, and no Marxist, or even particularly leftish. Those who think him so must be pretty darn rightish themselves! Perhaps to the right of--oh, I dunno--Glenn Beck? LOL!!!
Benefit of the doubt is a good thing. Some think JohnMcCain's wartime POW experience left him with snakes in the head; yea, even some Republicans stress this kernal of understanding. Reject it. It is false. And bearing false witness is against God's law.
We all remember God's law, or do we? LOL!!!!
Anonymous | 1:01 p.m. July 7, 2008
just let. the people make there own choises
Well Said! | 1:52 p.m. July 7, 2008
Anonymous at 10:57, I couldn't have said it better!
Anonymous | 2:14 p.m. July 7, 2008
I agree...10:57 said it as well as it needs to be said...and yes not only does Obama have my vote, but I am a delegate for him.
Bill S | 5:28 p.m. July 7, 2008
Giving any man a benefit of the doubt is a very just and righteous effort. However there's little doubt in the case of Obama.
Annoymous stated that it wasn't Obama that said a lot of the garbage that was spewed forth against the USA and the leaders of our country. That could very well be a fact, as I haven't taken the time to research all that he has said. By standing up for his minister HE stated he believed him and his retoric. He then modified his statements to say he had never heard the radical statements. What was he thinking of being married by someone he didn't know or having his children baptized by the same unknown (?) minister. Trying to cover a trail with more blatant untruths shouldn't be acceptical.
I know that I enjoy living in a FREE COUNTRY. Obama has said himself that he will give up another country full of terrorists and put the freedom of our country at stake. That is plenty of reason to vote against him and the retoric of rolling over and sacrificing not only those tha have died and been wounded in this conflict, but all those before!!!
THINK!!!!
Annoymous stated that it wasn't Obama that said a lot of the garbage that was spewed forth against the USA and the leaders of our country. That could very well be a fact, as I haven't taken the time to research all that he has said. By standing up for his minister HE stated he believed him and his retoric. He then modified his statements to say he had never heard the radical statements. What was he thinking of being married by someone he didn't know or having his children baptized by the same unknown (?) minister. Trying to cover a trail with more blatant untruths shouldn't be acceptical.
I know that I enjoy living in a FREE COUNTRY. Obama has said himself that he will give up another country full of terrorists and put the freedom of our country at stake. That is plenty of reason to vote against him and the retoric of rolling over and sacrificing not only those tha have died and been wounded in this conflict, but all those before!!!
THINK!!!!
RL | 5:29 p.m. July 7, 2008
I don't agree. Romney was very clear and unwavering in his religious beliefs. He's LDS and that's that. Obama on the other hand is only a member of a church if it suits him politically. When it became a liability, he dropped it like a hot potato. I'm not saying the guy is a creep because of his choice. I'm just saying I can't stand the comparison between him and Romney. It's like comparing a citrus to a melon. They may both be fruits (no hidden message there!) but they are totally different.
Bill S | 5:42 p.m. July 7, 2008
To Chad;
Perhaps you should take some time to learn something of the "Mormon" religion. I doubt that any members of the church, or very few, are against Obama because of the church he belongs to. We know our church is true but ALL the members of the church may not be.
That is the situation with Obama - I'm willing to give the benefit of doubt to any church preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. I am not willing to endorse ANY person, group, cult, etc. that talks of and encourages the distruction of the USA.
Voting for a memeber of any group that endorses those that do is insanity at it's baseist. Voting for any member to be the president of our nation is beyond comprehension. I really believe that the democrats have endorsed a person that is far off base. Not a religion, but a person!
Of all the things Obama has said and those words spoken by his wife are amazing if taken in complete context for any person running for president. Where was she getting all her quotes if not from living within the confines of the Obama household??
Perhaps you should take some time to learn something of the "Mormon" religion. I doubt that any members of the church, or very few, are against Obama because of the church he belongs to. We know our church is true but ALL the members of the church may not be.
That is the situation with Obama - I'm willing to give the benefit of doubt to any church preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. I am not willing to endorse ANY person, group, cult, etc. that talks of and encourages the distruction of the USA.
Voting for a memeber of any group that endorses those that do is insanity at it's baseist. Voting for any member to be the president of our nation is beyond comprehension. I really believe that the democrats have endorsed a person that is far off base. Not a religion, but a person!
Of all the things Obama has said and those words spoken by his wife are amazing if taken in complete context for any person running for president. Where was she getting all her quotes if not from living within the confines of the Obama household??
Jim | 5:48 p.m. July 7, 2008
Just what religion is Obama? He not only distanced himself from his pastor but also his religion. Now when he was a child, wasn't he Muslium, who converted to Christianity, or a form of it. He appears to change as a the wind blows, depending on how many people will vote for him.
Romney took it on the chin and did not waver from his religion, despite the fact that it may have cost him his nomination. There is no comparison between Romney and Obama. Romney has creditiblity. Obama has none. Wake up America
Romney took it on the chin and did not waver from his religion, despite the fact that it may have cost him his nomination. There is no comparison between Romney and Obama. Romney has creditiblity. Obama has none. Wake up America
kathyn | 5:49 p.m. July 7, 2008
Barack Obama has been listed as the most liberal democrat in the Senate. That, plus his stand for partial birth abortion make it impossible for a moderate such as myself to vote for him. The fact that he couldn't bring himself to aknowledge how radical his pastor (of 20 years!)was until public pressure mounted does not inspire confidence in his honesty or integrity. I see him as someone who says and does what is politically expedient. He seems to have learned well from Chicago politics.
Valiant effort, but... | 6:25 p.m. July 7, 2008
LDS have learned the hard way how prejudice and bigotry work in politics. Even the responses on this board include innuendo regarding "Hussein" Obama: it is despicable. I doubt that the patriotism of a white American, of any faith, would be placed in doubt.
In my opinion, Saints should resist the racist rhetoric that is sure to escalate as the campaign gets under way.
I will vote for Obama, the first time I will vote Dem, because I want change so my kids have a better future.
In my opinion, Saints should resist the racist rhetoric that is sure to escalate as the campaign gets under way.
I will vote for Obama, the first time I will vote Dem, because I want change so my kids have a better future.
Bill S | 7:18 p.m. July 7, 2008
Valiant effort
You might read the comment by Kathyn. Thankfully your children are born. There is no "innuendo" in the fact of his pastor and the fact that Obama was completely in his corner UNTIL it was costing him votes, so he tried to change, something an unborn child will not be able to do. Again there is no "racial or religious" in the evaluation of Obama. The patriotism of our great country is being challanged by Obama.
Change for changes sake is not always the best. We have a free country where your children have a chance to be raised in freedom. Do you want to change that? You could. I really wish your children the very best and hope you have the good sence to vote with the USA's future in mind. Our future is in grave danger.
As stated in other articles, Gov Romney never backed away from his faith, but why should he. The church will always stand by America and a free world. He took it on the chin from many that knew nothing of his religion but still critized him. He was, is, and will always be a proud member of the LDS religion.
You might read the comment by Kathyn. Thankfully your children are born. There is no "innuendo" in the fact of his pastor and the fact that Obama was completely in his corner UNTIL it was costing him votes, so he tried to change, something an unborn child will not be able to do. Again there is no "racial or religious" in the evaluation of Obama. The patriotism of our great country is being challanged by Obama.
Change for changes sake is not always the best. We have a free country where your children have a chance to be raised in freedom. Do you want to change that? You could. I really wish your children the very best and hope you have the good sence to vote with the USA's future in mind. Our future is in grave danger.
As stated in other articles, Gov Romney never backed away from his faith, but why should he. The church will always stand by America and a free world. He took it on the chin from many that knew nothing of his religion but still critized him. He was, is, and will always be a proud member of the LDS religion.
Chris Plummer RE KURTLEIN | 7:40 p.m. July 7, 2008
"There is no mistaking what his pastor said in those sermons. If you've read former comments of his or his wife, as well as those of his pastor, there is no room for a "benefit of doubt." B. Hussein Obama is no one who can be trusted."
or how about:
How about we hold all Mormons accountable for things Brigham Young said... yeah, sounds like a bad idea.
or how about:
How about we hold all Mormons accountable for things Brigham Young said... yeah, sounds like a bad idea.
To Bill S. from "Valiant" | 9:01 p.m. July 7, 2008
Would you like to be judged based on things the bishop of your ward might have said?
I am just appalled by the rumors about Barack Obama: "muslim," "Osama," "Hussein," "marxist" and more. I have been around long enough to know what these rumors are trying to suggest. We've seen this movie, we all know what McCain and Huckabee said about Romney and the Church
President Obama will signify that we have truly moved beyond racism. I am proud to live in a country where only 40 since segregation, we have an African-American as a serious candidate for president.
Obama is also very smart, a hard working self-made man, and his campaign is tough without getting nasty. Of course I don't agree with all his positions, especially regarding abortion. But I think healthcare, poverty, war and the environment are also important moral issues.
I am 80% sure I will vote for Obama. I also think many Utah women like me will also vote Obama and the LDS vote will be a surprise in November.
I am just appalled by the rumors about Barack Obama: "muslim," "Osama," "Hussein," "marxist" and more. I have been around long enough to know what these rumors are trying to suggest. We've seen this movie, we all know what McCain and Huckabee said about Romney and the Church
President Obama will signify that we have truly moved beyond racism. I am proud to live in a country where only 40 since segregation, we have an African-American as a serious candidate for president.
Obama is also very smart, a hard working self-made man, and his campaign is tough without getting nasty. Of course I don't agree with all his positions, especially regarding abortion. But I think healthcare, poverty, war and the environment are also important moral issues.
I am 80% sure I will vote for Obama. I also think many Utah women like me will also vote Obama and the LDS vote will be a surprise in November.
Sarah | 9:17 p.m. July 7, 2008
I'm an LDS woman, one who is a moderate independent, and I refuse to vote for Obama in November. It has nothing to do with his race, it has nothing to do with comments by his pastor or his wife, it has to do with his political views and policies. His ideas and ideals scare me. He is one of the very last people I would ever want to see leading this country.
Carl | 9:45 p.m. July 7, 2008
Just a minute here. What are you all saying? You're judging both candidates mostly on heresay. Most of you don't have a clue about either's position; or, heaven forbid they should ever change their minds. Talk about being prejudiced.
Bill S | 11:19 p.m. July 7, 2008
To "Valiant"
Make this very clear in your mind - "YES" I would stand by what the Bishop of our ward has said, and the previous Bishop etc. I would never be judged by what they have said as I am not worthy. I hope you are clear on this subject and truly wish that when you sustained your Bishop or the Prophet that you did so in good faith. I did!
The "rumors" you semi-quote and their intent would require a judgement that I have not been set apart to do.
"President Obama" is pretty far-fetched at this time and certainly a judgement in the USA. Our U.S. President is George Bush in case you were unaware. I don't understand your "forty since segregation" statement. If you're infering years I believe your history may be flawed. I am not aware of anything in the constitution where race was mentioned much less mandated. There are many "African-Americans" who do not preach the destruction of America.
IF Utah votes for Obama you are very correct. It will be a huge surprise as "most" of the people of the state have a very abiding faith in the United States of America.
Thankfully!!!
Make this very clear in your mind - "YES" I would stand by what the Bishop of our ward has said, and the previous Bishop etc. I would never be judged by what they have said as I am not worthy. I hope you are clear on this subject and truly wish that when you sustained your Bishop or the Prophet that you did so in good faith. I did!
The "rumors" you semi-quote and their intent would require a judgement that I have not been set apart to do.
"President Obama" is pretty far-fetched at this time and certainly a judgement in the USA. Our U.S. President is George Bush in case you were unaware. I don't understand your "forty since segregation" statement. If you're infering years I believe your history may be flawed. I am not aware of anything in the constitution where race was mentioned much less mandated. There are many "African-Americans" who do not preach the destruction of America.
IF Utah votes for Obama you are very correct. It will be a huge surprise as "most" of the people of the state have a very abiding faith in the United States of America.
Thankfully!!!
Contrarian | 1:06 a.m. July 8, 2008
The problem with Obama is not religious belief, but the willingness to use religion as a political tool. He is a cynical opportunist.
Obama is the product of a non-religious, white upbringing and an expensive prep school education. His mother had no qualms about taking on two different Muslim men because she had no religious views.
The only thing Obama has in common with American blacks is an absentee, black father. If he were to present himself as a "black" candidate he needed some "black" bona fides. His handlers suggested community organizing in a Chicago ghetto and Jeremiah Wright's black, Christian church. It was easy to dump the church when it had done the job.
Obama is the product of a non-religious, white upbringing and an expensive prep school education. His mother had no qualms about taking on two different Muslim men because she had no religious views.
The only thing Obama has in common with American blacks is an absentee, black father. If he were to present himself as a "black" candidate he needed some "black" bona fides. His handlers suggested community organizing in a Chicago ghetto and Jeremiah Wright's black, Christian church. It was easy to dump the church when it had done the job.
Dimpho | 5:17 a.m. July 8, 2008
GOLDEN RULE " DO UNTO OTHERS......" . MAY OBAMA BE TREATED AS ROMNEY WILL BE TREATED.
Just Ed | 7:18 a.m. July 8, 2008
Well, I just don't know how all the xenophobic fear-mongers are going to deal with the future President Obama. That's their problem. I for one (a serious Christian and moderate democrat) will be drinking a toast to the end of Bush/Cheney (FINALLY--thank GOD) and the beginning of a Presidency that I can be proud of rather than ashamed of.
Contrarian | 11:22 a.m. July 8, 2008
Ed, The end of Bush/Cheney and the arrival of Barack Obama does not signify change, just a changing of the guard. Barack Obama, like all presidents for the last hundred years, is a front man, while many of the unseen, who wield real power, move quietly from being liberal democrats to neo-conservatives and back again, while Americans, like you are toasting a change of face.
The shell game only works because the rubes never expect that the game is rigged. Honest people are the easiest to cheat because they believe that others are like themselves.
Barack Obama is a creation devised to fool the rubes. He is a non-entity who appears to be whatever people want him to be. Giving us a "choice" between McCain and Obama is the clearest signal yet that America is expected to produce an endless supply of rubes who think there is a pea under one of the three shells.
The shell game only works because the rubes never expect that the game is rigged. Honest people are the easiest to cheat because they believe that others are like themselves.
Barack Obama is a creation devised to fool the rubes. He is a non-entity who appears to be whatever people want him to be. Giving us a "choice" between McCain and Obama is the clearest signal yet that America is expected to produce an endless supply of rubes who think there is a pea under one of the three shells.
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